Filing Successful Grievances
A carrier in your office has approached you and said he has just been told to report to the supervisor’s office for an interview. He believes that the interview could lead to discipline. What do you do? First off, you’ve caught a break. Most grievant’s when asked to report for an investigative interview, think they can talk their way out of it. Therefore, at that critical first step, they don’t ask for Union representation. But since you have the opportunity, to be part of the interview with the grievant, take full advantage of your rights.
Ask for time for a pre-interview meeting with the grievant. Your pre-interview with the grievant should be private, just you and the grievant. Weingarten gives that right. If management refuses you time, make that a part of your due process arguments in the grievance file. The pre-interview will give you time to understand what the management interview is likely to be about. It will also give you time to strategize and clarify what the grievant should and should not say during the interview. As it turns out, the pre-disciplinary interview concerned attendance, and management has now issued the grievant a Notice of Removal (NOR) for Irregular Attendance. So where do you start?
Let’s start with an overview of some general rules. Number one is listening. The key to a good interview is listening to what a person has to say. The best way to get to the facts is by being a good listener. Be relaxed when you do your interviews. A grievant who is facing discipline is already upset, so you need to diffuse that to the extent that you can. Control your feelings. Do not get caught up in the emotions that are already there. As you discuss the various issues, keep notes of the important things that are discussed. This should include a list of any additional potential witnesses. Show the grievant that you are interested and want to get all the information out. Ask open-ended questions that allow the witness to clarify and fill in facts. When you ask yes or no questions, often that is all you will get in return. For example, if you simply ask the grievant if they abused their sick leave, they will say no. How has that helped you? Obviously, it hasn’t. If, however you ask what medical problems they have, you are likely to get a lot more information. It is also good to periodically repeat answers back to the witness to insure, that what you have written down accurately reflects the witness’s statements.
During the interview, it’s okay to be supportive, but don’t make promises you may not be able to keep. If they ask you if you will be able to rescind the discipline? Don’t tell them you will, better to tell them you will do everything you can to expunge the discipline. And if they ask you a question to which you don’t know the answer, tell them you will find out and get back to them. Don’t guess and give them bad information.
Back to the interview. Use the discipline letter as your roadmap to start. Ask about the cited dates in the letter and why the grievant used the sick leave, emergency annual and/or was AWOL. Ask if there was an underlying medical condition that could allow for an FMLA defense, or a drug or alcohol problem that could lead to an EAP defense.
The bottom line, once you engage a witness in an interview, let the conversation be natural while at the same time you direct the conversation to elicit the information and answers you need. Don’t, however, miss opportunities when surprises occur to follow up those leads for additional information. The information you gather from the grievant will lead to your next interviews. This is also your opportunity to ask the grievant to provide you with documentation that he should have.
Your next likely interview will be the supervisor that issued the discipline. Article 17, Section 3 states in relevant part, “and shall have the right to interview the aggrieved employee(s), supervisors, and witnesses during working hours.” So, you have the right to interview supervisors. Take advantage of that right. The issuing supervisor should be questioned about what information they consulted, why they issued the discipline, who they obtained concurrence from, and what documentation they shared with the concurring official.
This interview should be followed up with an interview of the concurring official. Determine what documentation the concurring official was provided and what rationale was used in concurring. Again, let the answers to your questions lead you to follow up questions. Once you have completed your interview with the supervisor, you should immediately attempt to interview the concurring official to see if that story matches the one given to you by the immediate supervisor.
Your interviews should continue as the facts lead you. For example, if you find that the grievant had a serious medical condition and that he had requested FMLA protected leave and it was denied, you may want to interview the FMLA Coordinator. Based on reasonableness, you should be able to interview the FMLA Coordinator at his/her office. “Reasonableness” means, for example, if the FMLA Coordinator works in close proximity to your office, you should get a face-to-face meeting. If, however, the FMLA Coordinator works in a distant location, a telephone interview would be appropriate.
There are other potential witnesses you may need to interview. Sometimes clarification of medical information from the grievant’s physician or nurse is needed. In most cases the grievant will have to provide you with a release. Without that the doctor is not likely to speak to you.
These are simply examples of how a typical case might go. As already stated, let the information you have developed from your early interviews lead you. And don’t be surprised if you have to interview a witness more than one time. The grievant especially will require an additional interview after more facts have been developed and additional questions naturally flow from the information you have gathered.
Contract cases are not significantly different when interviewing witnesses. Start with the grievant and work from there. Supervisor interviews are often even more important in contract cases than in discipline cases. supervisors often have the kind of knowledge that may be critical. For example, in a simple Article 8 case, the supervisor will normally know why certain individuals were worked while others weren’t. The supervisor will know a lot concerning the scheduling of employees.
A person skilled at interviewing witnesses may turn a poor case into a good case just by the information obtained from managers. Often, we do not interview supervisors in the grievance procedure and that allows them time to formulate their position.
Good interviews are the backbone of any grievance. Without solid information, the best case will wither and die on the vine.
On another note, we had another carrier from Branch 6000 lose his battle with Covid-19. His name was David Wengel from the Levittown Post Office. He was a letter carrier for 27 years. Keep him in your thoughts and prayers as we approach this holiday season.
I would like to wish you and your families a Happy Thanksgiving!
I would also like to wish you and your families a Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukah, Happy Holidays and a Happy New Year!
Be safe and keep smiling.
